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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
28
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Posted - 2015.01.05 21:05:53 -
[1] - Quote
I still believe that assigned fighters "Work As Intended (tm)"
This is such a small and isolated issue that maybe there are other things that need to be addressed first?
Like Ishtars Online.
There's a higher chance that you will run into an ishtar fleet in nullsec than a tengu with assigned fighters. Ishtars and Rail-gus are a bigger problem. I fly them sure, but I don't like it.
Fix the stuff that actually means something to a wider section of the consumer base. This is minor stuff really when it comes down to it. And really, leave capital ships alone for 5 freaking minutes willya???
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
29
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Posted - 2015.01.05 21:21:42 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The new numbers are:
Type - Old Scan Res GÇô New Scan Res
Dragonfly - 200 - 100
Einherji - 350 - 175
Firbolg - 250 - 125
Templar - 300 - 150
Cyclops GÇô 250 - 27
Malleus - 300 - 29
Mantis - 200 - 25
Shadow GÇô 225 - 30
Tyrfing - 350 - 31
Well it's nice to see you haven't completely destroyed the Shadow 
I'm just trying to understand the numbers on bombers. They seem pretty arbitrary to me. Let's watch the market numbers fall for the Mantis. As. We. Speak.
First, a question. Why do the drones even have their own scan res to begin with? If they are an extension of the ship, shouldn't they have a scan res equal to that of the ship that launched them?
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
29
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Posted - 2015.01.05 21:28:34 -
[3] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:I don't get the significance of this change. Fighters and Fighter Bombers aren't really an issue in Cap v Subcap fights.
"These aren't the drones you are looking for"...somebody, probably.
Nerf sentries my good man, we all know they are out of balance, and we all know why there has been mostly drone boat meta since you tweaked Drones as a dedicated weapons platform over a year ago.
Its not bombers, its not fighter bombers, its not the Domi, it wasn't the Gila, it isn't the Prophecy, its not the Ishtar...
Its Sentry Drones. Quit kicking the can when anyone with a set of functioning eyeballs can see that Sentry Drones are not in line with other weapons, or other drones....god damn.
That was partially addressed when they reduced the drone bunny effect. Which really, didn't do very much at all. As a matter of fact I see more drone battles than ever. Just Ishtars though, not slowcats.
So you have a major point. It's the damned sentries that are the common factor.
Leave me fighters alone damnyeh
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
29
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Posted - 2015.01.05 22:30:56 -
[4] - Quote
Firefox4312 Yatolila wrote:As the "exploit" has already been explained on how it works, I don't need to explain it here.
So, if scooping and redeploying is an exploit, why even have that mechanic in the game? The exploit just comes from the laziness of CCP's coding. If they decided to just make the ROF a global timer per drone. So if you pulled and redeployed that timer never got reset, then this exploit would never have existed nor would be an issue today.
The bottom line is that, CCP would rather just nerf something to fix an issue, rather than look at the coding and be like "Oh, we screwed up, and this exploit is our fault for bad coding, we should probably fix this." But instead of doing that, they'd rather go "Oh, we screwed up, but let's not admit it, and just change scan res so that we kinda fixed the exploit without actually fixing our terrible coding."
Just make each fighter and fighter bomber's ROF work on a global timer than doesn't reset when you scoop and deploy and everything is fixed. There's no legitimate reason to nerf the scan res of Fighters and FBs unless CCP would rather just make supercarriers used less and less than they already are.
I think that's what they want really.
@CCP_Fozzie c'mon Fozzie, just admit it.
Why the hard on for nerfing supers so much lately? The session timer for supers is a much more reasonable fix for this issue than absolutely killing scan res. Fix it, don't slap a bandaid on it and call it a day.
While the Chicken Little crew is wailing about "oooh fighter assist is killing our lowsec roams into null" really there are much more important issues to address.
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
29
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Posted - 2015.01.05 22:34:37 -
[5] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:"Ishtars are fine, but fighters definitely need a scan res nerf."
Really? Sheesh, here comes the short bus.
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
29
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Posted - 2015.01.05 22:39:59 -
[6] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Panther X wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:"Ishtars are fine, but fighters definitely need a scan res nerf." Really? Sheesh, here comes the short bus. The quotation marks imply that that was CCP's thought process. I figured that was obvious.
Nothing is obvious. There is only Zuul.
You forgot to put up the Dr Evil quotation marks meme. 
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
29
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Posted - 2015.01.05 22:45:10 -
[7] - Quote
Lord Takani wrote:Remove the assignment of fighters. Problem of inties with fighter support solved(Not the primary issue but still a good update IMO). On to the stated issue. Re-launch fighter delay. Easy to implement, as with re-entering wormholes.
Someone mentioned to me the "problem" of assigned fighters. How is it a problem?
1> Launch dickstar pos in hostile territory
2>Jump in 50 supers
3>Bring in 100 man interceptor gang
4>Assign 500 fighters to 100 interceptors.
5>WIN
No problem.
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
29
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Posted - 2015.01.05 22:49:36 -
[8] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:I'm not entirely sure what the reasoning is for this change even having read the OP, but I'm pretty confident it has nothing to do with nerfing FB effectiveness against subcaps.
I can't see fighter bombers ever hitting subcaps for anything more than 50 damage, ever.
And that has nothing to do with scan resolution to begin with.
Why should fighters have their scan res neutered when they are frigate class drones. They are designed to hit sub capital vessels, and therefore should be able to lock them, fairly effectively. At least with the scan resolution of the launching vessel or better.
Fighter bombers are designed to hit capital vessels and deployables/structures. Where did this whole thing go sideways?
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
29
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Posted - 2015.01.05 23:01:55 -
[9] - Quote
In b4 Grr Goons.
Still awaiting a response on why FBs are getting a scan res nerf of more than 90%. It makes no sense.
Why 90%? Why not 25% or 50% or 66.666667%?
What does the scan resolution in fighter bombers have to do with an exploit that it requires a 90%+ reduction?
Can you at least do the maths fer me and explain the whys and wherefores?
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
29
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Posted - 2015.01.05 23:10:14 -
[10] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Panther X wrote:In b4 Grr Goons.
Still awaiting a response on why FBs are getting a scan res nerf of more than 90%. It makes no sense.
Why 90%? Why not 25% or 50% or 66.666667%?
What does the scan resolution in fighter bombers have to do with an exploit that it requires a 90%+ reduction?
Can you at least do the maths fer me and explain the whys and wherefores? Stay tuned to themittani.com for all of your answers and enjoy the comments thread it spawns.
LOL Like anyone at TMC can do the maths. Gewns own the CSM's, so it really isn't a surprise.
Here's an idea. Give gewns their own server so they and the RusRus can go live in Utopian Socialist Paradise.
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
29
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Posted - 2015.01.05 23:16:41 -
[11] - Quote
Haidere wrote:Ladies, you're both pretty. Now let's try and help CCP find a logical, effective fix for this problem instead of flailing away at each other.
Nah Baltec is full of Mittani branded smug lol
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
29
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Posted - 2015.01.05 23:23:35 -
[12] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Panther X wrote:In b4 Grr Goons.
Still awaiting a response on why FBs are getting a scan res nerf of more than 90%. It makes no sense.
Why 90%? Why not 25% or 50% or 66.666667%?
What does the scan resolution in fighter bombers have to do with an exploit that it requires a 90%+ reduction?
Can you at least do the maths fer me and explain the whys and wherefores? Stay tuned to themittani.com for all of your answers and enjoy the comments thread it spawns.
Gewns are just happy this is happening after we faceraped them with giant ass sausages in Fountain thanks to fighter assist. So there it is.
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
34
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Posted - 2015.01.06 01:18:30 -
[13] - Quote
Dar Saleem wrote:Haidere wrote:Ladies, you're both pretty. Now let's try and help CCP find a logical, effective fix for this problem instead of flailing away at each other. You make the assumption CCP actually listen to us. They don't. Their pathetic response to any difficult problem is just to go and nerf it. I used to think fozzie was different, but in the end hes fallen into the CCP mindtrap of nerf everything
Well you're somewhat right. They don't listen to anyone but Grr Gewns and their Socialist Lackey Dogs.
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
34
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Posted - 2015.01.06 01:22:26 -
[14] - Quote
Tieberius wrote:I'm sorry but this is a pisstake. Some half arsed reasoning to hide the ulterior motive. Just remove the damned things already and reimburse people.
Yessir, I'll take that 25ish plus hull price isk back TYVM, and I'll buy a couple hundred thousand rifters.
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
35
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Posted - 2015.01.06 01:54:48 -
[15] - Quote
Sootsia wrote: If you really want to tweak something, give Supers back their Sentries.
Wait a second...
Did Soots fix ishtars?
Give supers and supers ONLY sentries.
Ishtars fixed. Domi herds fixed. Thank you, Elvis has left the building.
Sentries cannot be assigned off grid.
There's our fix Ladies and Germs.
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
35
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Posted - 2015.01.06 02:13:28 -
[16] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
for all intents and purposes
English Grammar ***** ensue.
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
35
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Posted - 2015.01.06 02:14:43 -
[17] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Tykonderoga wrote:baltec1 wrote:Tykonderoga wrote:baltec1 wrote:Brace yourselves, NC DOT superwaggon arriving. Brace yourself, you use drones too, friend. And your bears do too. We dont care. Death to all supers. Then self destruct all your supers and titans and prove to me you are not a hypocrite. lmbo you first nerd
You couldn't do all 3 or 4 flames in one post?
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
35
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Posted - 2015.01.06 02:18:48 -
[18] - Quote
Juneau Chokis wrote:Tykonderoga wrote:Fighters get murdered by subcaps all the time. Except when they have a few DDA/DNC/tracking links on them and trash literally any ship in the game without any sort of ewar required. Not sure if the rest of your post is some high-level trolling, though. I'm laughing my ass off reading that, knowing that you're in the largest snoozefest blob alliance in the game since the death of the northern coalition. You perfectly described it with your post.
I thought that was Goons...huh. Well learn something new e'er day
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
37
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Posted - 2015.01.06 07:06:27 -
[19] - Quote
Firefox4312 Yatolila wrote:So I guess this exploit splerg from CCP is more of an excuse for a nerf. Because if it was actually an exploit, and ccp cared about their game (which I guess they don't), they'd fix the bad code and not change some variables that leaves exploitable code in their game.
If I can get my sentries to recall then redeploy and engage and shoot in under their 4s ROF timer, say 3.5s, would I not be exploiting? What if I did this with Geckos, or Warriors, or ecm drones to get more jam cycles off? Aren't these all cases of exploiting? So why change only fighters/bombers at this point? Why not nerf the scan res of every drone in eve since they can all gain a DPS bonus from this exploit? Surely you'd have to rebalance the scanres on every drone in eve to fix this problem if CCP would rather not fix their code.
e: I think we should let Rise handle these changes so we can o7 drones completely like we o7'd RLMLs.
Seriously, he's right. if an "exploit" is the reason that this "rebalance" (CCP's word not mine) is being implemented, then it has to be implemented across the board, because all drones act the same way.
The explanation IS pretty weak.
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
37
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Posted - 2015.01.06 07:16:03 -
[20] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The primary goal of this change is to ensure that rapidly scooping and relaunching fighters and fighter bombers never gives a dps advantage. This practice has not been widespread thus far, but any possible advantage gained this way would both provide imbalanced DPS and cause significant server load so we want to nip it in the bud.
The changes will also have the effect of delaying the initial alpha strike of fighters and fighter bombers, especially against subcaps. Although it is not the primary purpose of the change we are not displeased by this effect, and we do not believe that it will make fighters or fighter bombers underpowered.
I know that some people who are hoping for a major nerf to assigned fighters will be unhappy that this change will only have a small-moderate effect on that activity. We have been keeping a close eye on the way fighters are used ever since our recent rounds of drone rebalancing and we aren't ruling out any potential future changes at this time. However we are not going to rush into any larger changes to fighter mechanics.
OK Fozzie, I'm calling you out on this. I have never, EVER seen this being used. By anyone. Anywhere. You do realize that fighters are not sentries, and that they actually have to fly TO their target and get in optimal range? "Rapidly" scooping and relaunching fighters and FB's? WTH are you going on about? The only scooping of drones is sentries. Are you ABSOLUTELY sure you aren't supposed to be fixing sentries with this?
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
37
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Posted - 2015.01.06 07:59:10 -
[21] - Quote
Jaiimez Skor wrote:I feel that this is a poor approach that won't change things, so now instead of those assigned fighters killing you in 5 seconds, they'll now do it in 10. Bombers I don't see why they need a scan res nerf, bombers are not broken what is broken is drone assigned fighters to frigates and interceptors.
Firstly what should be changed is you should NOT be able to launch drones within 15/20/25km of an online control tower REGARDLESS of whether the forcefield is up or not, you should not be able to assign fighters effectively risk free next to an online control tower and just online the forcefield if someone comes for you. I would even further this by suggesting to make it 20/25/30 so you have to be a minimum of 5km off the forcefield to be able to assign fighters, again to prevent this relatively risk free use of fighter assigning.
I see what you are saying. And I get it. I don't agree with the online down forcefield thingy. That I don't do.
It just seems to me a small issue of assigned fighters. There are bigger issues to fix.
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
37
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Posted - 2015.01.06 08:08:18 -
[22] - Quote
Here CCP I will fix this for you.
move sentries to carriers only
fighters to supers
kill fighter assist
make all capitals forbidden in lowsec
then delete all the capitals from the game.
wait, isn't this where you are going anyway?
there's your next 6 months of releases
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
37
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Posted - 2015.01.06 19:30:45 -
[23] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:
Fix the actual issue if there is an issue.
people keep saying this and not really 'getting' it ccp has a limited number of people who are good enough at the engine code to tinker with it in the ways completely fixing this would require in addition, we have no idea of the amount of work this would require and it's probably relatively considerable so we have the question, what is a better result: spend a lot of valuble engine coding time fixing a rare bug, or making it go away with mechanics changes (which can be done by non-programmers) this obviously took a short amount of time to figure out and implement and works just fine in fixing the bug in the most egregious situations and does so without draining dev time from more pressing priorities, a clear win
A clear win for whom though? According to whose agenda?
A clear win for CCP and their dwindling stock of serious programmers? If they didn't scroooo up things to begin with...
Anyway, that's neither here nor there.
If CCP wants to get rid of capitals, they should tell us so we can prepare, and make sure that we are properly reimbursed for the skill points and isk invested. Take away my super? Sure, as long as I get a boatload of deadspace fitted paladins, nightmares, redeemers and bhaalgorns in return, I'm game. Oh, and that's A and X type fitted deadspace, not scrubby c types or faction.
Fitting snobbishness ensues.
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
37
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Posted - 2015.01.06 20:04:59 -
[24] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Tykonderoga wrote:
How about this: We blue each other and complete the donut. Not as though anything is going on in EvE anyway. Or are you content gutting the leadership of your allies so they are just zombies?
ahhh there it is the most ingratiating position of surrender possible
Can't we just all get along by killing each other silently?
I always find it amusing how every forum thread turns into GRR GEWNS.
I say it from time to time, cause you know, its funny.
Shiny thing!
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
37
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Posted - 2015.01.06 20:09:19 -
[25] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:baltec1 wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Thats cute, but its not my problem if CCPs spaghetti code makes it hard for them to implement a new timer, that is CCP's problem and I can still expect them to actually fix what they claim they want to fix. Perhaps if they didn't spend the last 5 years kicking cans down the road they would have been able to streamline their code a bit more so they could overhaul aspects of the game they believe necessary to change. Keep in mind that this change is not only about DPS, but also avoiding server load. That server load is just as easily spiked with subcap drone usage as it it is with Capital drone usage. HED-GP? I too would enjoy living in this fantasy world where "bad code" is the only thing preventing computers from doing everything you want them to. Making Abandon/Scoop/Recall to Drone bay trigger a timer is perfectly possible within the game. We see this already occurring in a broad spectrum of commands in game already (reload weapons for example). In fact we just saw them implement a new timer tied to Jump to Beacon commands, that didn't exist before. So the computer can be told to function to have a command also begin a timer. We also know that timers can be made to prevent someone from issuing commands again across a wide array of things. Which means locking drone commands based on a timer, is also a possible process in the game. If for any reason this can not be implemented due to code structure, than it is an issue with the code, not the process capability of the game. So yes, if it can not be implemented, it is because of bad code, period. Several thousand drones all having their timers triggered on an already stressed node. Its not code its the node. You don't put a timer on the drone. You put a timer on drone commands themselves. For 20 seconds you can not issue commands to drones at all period. It doesn't matter what drones are doing. After issuing a command that triggers the timer you can not command your drones until that timer stops, at all. Command Abandon/Scoop/Recall to Bay Drones <20s Timer Start> You can not command drones now. <20s Timer Done.> You can command drones again. It has nothing to do with the drones themselves, it is locking the entire command tree of the drone interface. Just like when you reload a weapon or module and can no longer command it until the reloading timer completes.
I see where you are going with that, it sounds like a good idea until the reality of reworking the entire drone command process rears its head.
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
37
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Posted - 2015.01.06 21:50:47 -
[26] - Quote
I have to agree with this. Especially #3.
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
38
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Posted - 2015.01.07 00:08:30 -
[27] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:Kind of interesting to see the basic attitude towards this depending on which bloc is posting.
Goons: meh or Yay.
NC. Kadeshi: waah aaaaa!
PL: *silence*
As to why Goons are still stockpiling supers; it's no secret. Jump range nerfs/fatigue notwithstanding the best (and often only) way to kill a large blob of supers is with a bigger blob of supers. Until that changes (probably because goons do their damndest to use a stupid mechanic to the nth degree deliberately to get things changed) goons will fly supers.
Well you could say that about Tykonderoga, but I'm more of an inquisitive sort. I just want to understand the whys and wherefores of this. I want to know what the DIRECT correlation is between the so called "exploit" and reducing fighter bombers scan resolution over 90%.
This exploit just seems a bit hokey. Nothing to do with Goons vrs. NC DOT/Kadeshi Coalition politics.
It just happens that like an old married couple, we can never really agree on anything, even just on principle.
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
38
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Posted - 2015.01.07 12:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
afkalt wrote:
So then you're back to my point of tracking all sorts of weird crap on the server, which might not even be practical.
I always said I dont understand the fighters, but then maybe there's more to the gaming of the system than either of us realise.
Most capital fights I've been in last a hell of a lot longer than 60 seconds and the ones that dont, damned sure that lag won't change jack - especially since everyone hits it.
Again - a perfect fix? Nope, best fix in the triangle of do well, do it quickly and do it cheaply - pick two....and only two? Most probably.
But shouldn't we as consumers have the right to a product that actually works?
Our point is that this "fix" isn't necessary. It's the smallest tip of the iceberg, and has nothing to do with the problems in the meta. Drones are broken. Not fighters. Fix drones as a whole. You don't give someone a bandaid for a skinned knee after they've been disemboweled.
No one is crying over this fix. The actual fix, in and about itself is both pointless and meaningless. Fix the rest of the issue. There are so many other problems to be addressed that this actual issue is so infinitessimally small as to be non existent.
I don't know how to make it any clearer for the trolls, or the Goons, or the Goon trolls. Or the... you get the picture.
This is a "make work" project, at best. Your "tax dollars at work" so to speak.
I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall at that Dev meeting.. it probably would have gone something like this...
"Drones are buggered."
"Yes, let's pick out of the 30,000 things wrong with them, the thing that will cause us the least amount of work, and the highest amount of NC DOT versus Gooon forum trolls"
"Well obviously that means another super nerf"
"Obviously "
"Awesome, lets get to it"
"OK done, lets nerf fighters AND fighterbombers"
"DONE!"
"Great meeting guys, lets go to the pub and celebrate!!!"
High fives and Mittani smug all around.
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
38
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Posted - 2015.01.07 13:36:55 -
[29] - Quote
afkalt wrote:
Or you know....there's the whole obligation to patch exploits.
How is reducing scan resolution on fighter bombers fixing an exploit?
When was the last time you repeatedly SCOOPED fighterbombers? Actually while you're at it, when was the last time anyone did?
Read the explanation of the fix and tell me what this exploit addressed?
No one scoops fighterbombers. You recall them because they have to fly to a target.I mean unless you are bombing yourself.
You scoop SENTRIES, my good man.
My super flies at what 68m/s. I don't know about yours with the 10,000mn Estamel's Modified MWD. If I'm going 68m/s and fighterbombers go at whatever MWD speed they go at.. Do the maths.
They have to orbit the target and get in optimal range to attack.
This is the lowest common denominator type of fix. I'm not sure how you don't understand why we are asking why they can't explain the actual reason for this type of "fix" at all. It. Doesn't. Make. Sense.
I can understand that if they explain "we nerfed scan resolution because it causes X" "Here's the numbers as to why we reduced it to X amount"
You might as well have put up a "Youmadbro?" Meme for all your argument. Are all drones not coded the same? Fighters and bombers down to ewar? I haven't seen the code. Have you? Has any one? Everyone talks about the code of this particular mechanic like they wrote it themselves. I'm not a coder. I haven't seen it, so I don't know. But I don't like being peed on and told that its raining. If one does it, they should all do it. Fix all drones if this is an exploit.
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
38
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Posted - 2015.01.07 18:53:15 -
[30] - Quote
Niskin wrote:This doesn't seem that hard to figure out. POS/Sov arrays don't move. You can sit at zero on them. You can launch fighter bombers, then scoop/recall them, then launch them, then scoop/recall them, over and over again. This provides for up to a 50% DPS increase on any target that can be attacked in this way. They changed the scan res to prevent this from happening, maybe not the perfect fix but it solves the problem with minimal impact in other areas.
Having the damage applied at the end of the cycle is another potentially good fix, as another poster mentioned. Another way to go at it would be to lower the signature of the mods most likely to be shot in this way, but that would take a lot more effort and might not catch all the scenarios.
OK we are getting closer to the heart of the matter. There's a partial explanation, but break it down. Fighters still do really little to no more damage than sentries against structures. Why are they getting the same treatment, and sentries aren't. In a capital structure grind supers will use FB's carriers are probably going to drop sentries. And I don't know who sits at zero on a structure grind either. Anyone who's smart is not going to sit at zero and wait to get counter dropped by PL or goons or whoever.
Reduce scan res, make all drones one animation (instead of 10 drones make them one), delete supers, make it Ishtars Online, I don't really care.
Just give me the REAL scoop, give me the numbers to back that sh!t up, tell me where it's going. Just be freakin honest.
But this specific situation, where scan resolution of two, and two only specific drones, in an extremely limited scenario, seems to be more back burner stuff. There is more important stuff that needs to be addressed in the game. If tears and smug was a power source, there would be no energy crisis.
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
38
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Posted - 2015.01.07 18:55:37 -
[31] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Haidere wrote:
I hadn't thought of applying a timer to the PLAYER instead of drones, that would significantly reduce server load.
Also folks, despite what you think and wanting CCP to make a fix with the least amount of work, remember, this coding is more than a decade old, they seriously need to go in and a major overhaul, otherwise small fixes and patches will add up and eventually it will become so convoluted and inefficient that they would have to redo it all anyways. I don't know about you, but I'd prefer getting that work out of the way now and be done with it for another decade.
Except in this case, the fix does not add a single line of code and does not have to be tested for non intended behaviour because all they need to do is change the scan res data value on the affected drones. You don't redo a large part of your code-base when what you want to fix can be dealt with by a mere data change...
Doesn't sound like a fix. It sounds like an excuse.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, if it's in Eve it's a bandaid for a larger problem.
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Posted - 2015.01.07 19:34:24 -
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Frostys Virpio wrote:Panther X wrote:
Doesn't sound like a fix. It sounds like an excuse.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, if it's in Eve it's a bandaid for a larger problem.
The only gameplay getting nerfed by this is if you change target close to every cycle with your fighter/fighter-bombers. When does that happen for it to be such a massive pain in the ass to you that make the really easy way of fixing the deploy/scoop loot cycle abuse? Tell me why this fix is such a bad idea by telling me which situation it breaks and why your carrier/super gets completely wrecked because you are un-able to make your fighter/fighter-bomber swap target every other attack cycle.
If you are seriously asking me, then you never read a word I actually wrote.
But ok I'll bite.
1. It doesn't happen to me.
2. a.) It doesn't break anything that I know of. I haven't gone on SiSi and been on the Masstest and tried it out to confirm or deny that it "breaks" or "fixes" anything.
b.) My super is still fine, thank you very much. Not wrecked. Haven't hotdropped anyone yet today, or assigned my 3 sets of 5 fighters to 3 interceptors and tested that either. But if you are volunteering, come to my end of town and we will test it out with some other friends, and the guy who was complaining about having the literally "hundreds of fighters being assigned to hundreds of interceptors" and you can tell me if it's "broken" or "fixed"
:)
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Posted - 2015.01.07 19:51:31 -
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Promiscuous Female wrote:all of this "you should devote development time to adding a timer or other fix" talk sounds a lot like the "you are not allowed to touch this game mechanic that I like until this host of barely-related problems whose completion time is measured in star lifetimes has been sorted first" talk that the bevy of disconsolate posters on these forums unpack every time their precious pearl is being touched in an impure manner
You aren't far from the truth. But isn't that like every other change?
For example the whining by the entire wormhole community about the changes to Recons? Ohhhh noooeeesss I can't d-scan recons! Woes is me! You've broken wormholes! Imma gunna quit"
At least that's what I gleaned.
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Posted - 2015.01.07 20:00:52 -
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Viktor Corgo wrote: ( I believe, for sentries, without having a scan res, this is a flat activation time, either way, it's short)
There's the problem right there. Drones like sentries have NO scan res, while fighters and fb's have a scan res. Yes?
So... and I'm sorry if my babbywords (whatever the hell those are) aren't up to your obviously PhD level of eduma cashun why wasn't the scan res just...taken away? If the fighters and bombers have a higher scan res than the carrier itself, doesn't it make sense to treat it like other drones to not have a scan res?
Why the arbitrary 90% reduction? Supers have a horrible scan res anyway.
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Posted - 2015.01.07 20:04:03 -
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tl;dr: This change has a small effect on assigned fighters - future changes are not ruled out - they're keeping an eye on things.
What was your point again? They didn't fix things they said they weren't fixing? You are correct sir
Fantastic. I can breathe again. I thought I might have to go and re-sh!t-poast that whole string of crap at the beginning.
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Posted - 2015.01.07 20:10:38 -
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Niskin wrote:Panther X wrote:OK we are getting closer to the heart of the matter. There's a partial explanation, but break it down. Fighters still do really little to no more damage than sentries against structures. Why are they getting the same treatment, and sentries aren't. In a capital structure grind supers will use FB's carriers are probably going to drop sentries. That's a fair question, I don't know why Fighters got the same adjustment. It's possible there is a fighter based exploit that they didn't go into detail about. Maybe somebody else around here knows? Panther X wrote:And I don't know who sits at zero on a structure grind either. Anyone who's smart is not going to sit at zero and wait to get counter dropped by PL or goons or whoever. I think the point is that one would only sit at zero on a structure when they wanted to use this exploit. It's riskier, but up to 50% more damage is a huge damage boost when talking FB's on a structure. Essentially two SC's could do the damage of 3 in the same amount of time. Panther X wrote:Reduce scan res, make all drones one animation (instead of 10 drones make them one), delete supers, make it Ishtars Online, I don't really care.
Just give me the REAL scoop, give me the numbers to back that sh!t up, tell me where it's going. Just be freakin honest.
But this specific situation, where scan resolution of two, and two only specific drones, in an extremely limited scenario, seems to be more back burner stuff. There is more important stuff that needs to be addressed in the game. If tears and smug was a power source, there would be no energy crisis. Others have explained it already, but the difference between a data change and even the simplest code change could be the difference between an hour of work and weeks of work. Fixing exploits is important, enough so that they feel they need to make this change now.
I'll leave that whole string in because it does answer stuffs.
The operating word is COULD. Not DOES, not 1 or 0, or refers to null, but...maybe?
Who knows if it is a major change or a minor change? No one has definitely addressed that one way or another. Did they look at that? I don't know. Does anyone?
Maybe I have to run for CSM just to get the answers I want. I don't like half answers, especially to the stuff that affects me and or my style of play. It's up to me to decide what's important and what's not, just like anyone else. Troll me flame me, I don't really care. I just want to know more.
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Posted - 2015.01.07 20:17:15 -
[37] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Panther X wrote:Viktor Corgo wrote: ( I believe, for sentries, without having a scan res, this is a flat activation time, either way, it's short)
There's the problem right there. Drones like sentries have NO scan res, while fighters and fb's have a scan res. Yes? So... and I'm sorry if my babbywords (whatever the hell those are) aren't up to your obviously PhD level of eduma cashun why wasn't the scan res just...taken away? If the fighters and bombers have a higher scan res than the carrier itself, doesn't it make sense to treat it like other drones to not have a scan res? Why the arbitrary 90% reduction? Supers have a horrible scan res anyway. If you remove the scan res and have them activate like other drones, you make it even more worthwhile to drop/scoop them at 0 since you don't even lose ticks to the targeting delay. You might get close to 5 time the supposed amount of DPS to down a structure assuming you can drop (1st tick), shoot (2nd tick) and scoop (3rd tick) at the correct rate. 3x is more probable with errors but it does not fix the issue of the cycle resetting when the drone is scooped.
Great. Makes sense. Sounds legit and all that rot.
But still would just be a data change wouldnt it? If there's not scan res and the activation time is increased would that not accomplish the same thing, but make fbs and fighters act more like drones?
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Posted - 2015.01.07 20:18:37 -
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Promiscuous Female wrote:Panther X wrote: I just want to know more. no you don't you want the change reverted because it represents a reduction in power towards supercaps, which you feel are entitled to afford you a disproportionate advantage in Eve: Online, a Spaceship Game, due to its cost
awww come on now PF, your "Umadbro?" meme is showing.
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Posted - 2015.01.07 21:06:35 -
[39] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:see how dumb that looks
why'd you have to go there
I'm just the messenger.
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Posted - 2015.01.07 21:08:42 -
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Promiscuous Female wrote:also, if we're going to stoop to DANK MEMERY, my tribe isn't the one that invoked Godwin's law
just saiyan
But... but...what about the children?
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Posted - 2015.01.07 22:18:23 -
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Promiscuous Female wrote:Panther X wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:also, if we're going to stoop to DANK MEMERY, my tribe isn't the one that invoked Godwin's law
just saiyan But... but...what about the children? having run out of actual arguments, the disconsolate poster resorts to firing non-sequiturs as chaff
just wait until i start throwing "shut up" or, "I know you are but what am I " at you.
Grr Goons.
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Posted - 2015.01.08 00:43:21 -
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chossuh wrote:Red Teufel wrote:There is little to no risk to the carrier who is performing skynet. Especialy in a cyno jammed system. At most these changes just means if you are in an ishtar or anti frig you may have a chance to get away. Skynet is too broken. Waiting till it is used too much like isboxer is a bad move for the health of NS/LS space pvp. Right now we mostly avoid tackling carriers because of how OP the fighters are. Its just a content deterent.
FYI over the last few weeks almost every null roam we have run into skynet. Well it kind of makes sense that a carrier should be able to destroy your fleet if your fleet consists small subcaps... PVP Carriers take a long time to skill into both in terms of the modules they require, the broad range of drones they need and additionally...they're capital ships derp derp. A bunch of cruisers/HACS/BC's should not give a carrier pause for concern. The only thing a carrier should have to worry about is a large 20 + man fleet or other capitals. This nerf is completely stupid. I'm actually shocked to see most people in this thread think this change is a good idea - either none of you are capital pilots or eve is going in a direction that is inconsistent with the reasons why people actually play it.
I've made that argument before, and the Chicken Little crowd from Lowsec didn't like it too much. They figure that two interceptors and a noob ship should be able to kill supercaps.
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Posted - 2015.01.08 01:05:44 -
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...and Goons of course. They are so zombified they'll agree to anything HRM Mittani comes up with. Maybe someday on a whim he will tell them that they can only fly noobships in the Almighty Blob.
...and PF "Youmadbro" meme coming up in 3...2...1...
I kid I kid.
I mean about the noobships. It's harpies last time I looked
Seriously folks, I'm here until Tuesday, try the veal.
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Posted - 2015.01.08 01:09:06 -
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Im an a$$ I know, my own alliance is sick of my memes in allaince chat. Oh especially forums.
Anyway, I would really just kind of like to see a roadmap as to where all the super hate is going from CCP. You want to get rid of them, or make them obsolete, even in home defense? OK, make a plan, lay it out, pay us back and it's all good to me.
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Posted - 2015.01.08 13:49:13 -
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War Kitten wrote:d0cTeR9 wrote:
I have chatted with almost a dozen of the non-troll active members of this thread. Most never flew a carrier/supercarrier. They roam in 6-8 man gang and expect to be able to take down anything. When a carrier shows up and scares them off, they complain. Most of the time it's a 3 man gang, with 2 of them using assigned fighters to defend their sov space.
You didn't talk to me. I'm betting you didn't talk to many members of Goonswarm. Quote:I took a look at zkillboard, and it confirms it, heck most even admitted in chat to not flying a carrier and are just throwing fuel onto the anti-capital fire. They should all hunt in providence, no caps there :P Oh I see, so your "non-troll active members of this thread" turned out to be trolls afterall. Good sampling.
Didn't speak to me either. Not a troll, and actually am trying to get answers unlike some people.
I fly carriers and a supercarrier. So...yeah. Again, like I explained before, when something directly affects me and my play style, especially my big shiny thing, I want to know everything. Why, what, where, when etc. I want numbers, graphs, charts.
I don't take anything at face value, and don't like smoke being blown up my butt.
I have a fairly good sense of humour about it, regardless of what some people say *COUGH**PF**COUGH*
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Posted - 2015.01.08 14:13:40 -
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Frostys Virpio wrote:Panther X wrote:
Didn't speak to me either. Not a troll, and actually am trying to get answers unlike some people.
I fly carriers and a supercarrier. So...yeah. Again, like I explained before, when something directly affects me and my play style, especially my big shiny thing, I want to know everything. Why, what, where, when etc. I want numbers, graphs, charts.
I don't take anything at face value, and don't like smoke being blown up my butt.
I have a fairly good sense of humour about it, regardless of what some people say *COUGH**PF**COUGH*
Like with every other change they do to fix something they label as an exploit, they won't give you more details. They won't even explain the current usage or give number because they want to kill it before it become more used.
Understandable; but still, curiosity killed the cat
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Posted - 2015.01.08 15:09:24 -
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Is this change though just a temporary fix, one that can or could be reversed if and when they ever decide to truly "fix" drones and or fighters/bombers?
We all talk about them reversing jump changes ad nauseum, but will these kind of bandaid solutions be permanent fixes or have only temporary solutions solved by coding.
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Posted - 2015.01.08 19:12:35 -
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Promiscuous Female wrote:
rest in peace in peace?
Boom headshot!
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Posted - 2015.01.09 00:22:14 -
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Promiscuous Female wrote:oh hey Marlona Sky wrote:
I guess that blog by your leader not long ago, ordering all goons to NOT sell their super capitals, is a figment of my imagination?
following up on this: Quote:
Everyone in NC. is required to have both a Dreadnaught and a Carrier they should be located in QueriousEveryone in NC. should be working towards owning a SC or a Titan and current pilots who own them should NOT be selling them regardless of what you think to changes CCP make! They are a SUPER important part of this game more so now than ever! You are not allowed to sell SCs and Titans outside of NC. PERIOD anyone found doing so will pay a tax for doing so which will be used to help other members get into Titans and SCs. (No this isnGÇÖt a joke)
L M B O
Thank you EveSkunk
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Posted - 2015.01.09 00:24:21 -
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Promiscuous Female wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:
nah
being able to swap drones is needed for drone users, and putting a global cooldown on drone swaps hurts everyone disproportionately to solve the problem
lowering the scan res of a drone solves the specific problem in the most elegant possible way
Having a timer doesn't limit you from being able to swap drones though, it just delays the process, as it should be. yeah I am saying that that is garbage and would disproportionately affect other drone havers to fix a problem that is easily solved by lowering the scan resolution of specific drones Right because its not like we need a reason to discourage drone usage in fleets or anything like that... it also affects drone havers in smaller gangs and solo also drone redeploy timer is hella circumventable in fleet fights by not changing drones it's just a bad idea with too many flaws in it scan res nerf on fighter(bomber)s is elegant, functional, and without collateral damage
You do have, ugh I hate to admit it, a valid point.
Kill me, I know, I actually agreed with a Goon. I need to have a shower now. I feel so dirty.
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Posted - 2015.01.12 16:58:11 -
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wow are we still bitching about this?
It's going through whether we like it or not. If it remains a permanent change until they have some money to fix the code or care enough to do anything about it is beyond me.
Nothing to see here, move along. Move along.
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